Why are so many people here actually racist?

fkiblaze said:

I think this is the case now, since DEI, woke, SJW, stuff, etc is now past it's peak so white guilt is no longer "in" for leftist and now they are going back to class stuff instead of race, but this doesnt get rid of the fact that pre-elon buying twitter, they definitly were that. Elon buying twitter just massively shifted the overton window and destroyed all the hard anti-white nonsense.

if you want my brutally cynical take on this, it's really just because the left didn't expect to lose in America so badly, and they don't expect to ever lose anywhere else that they have a chokehold on (I'm talking about western and central europe now, such as scandanavia, britain germany france etc). They were (and some still are) so sure of their everlasting victory that they were effectively mask off, and now that they have lost so dramatically and have to now lick their wounds and reassess why and how they lost, they are rebranding and being less extreme politically. All in an attempt to woo back young impressionable and ignorant white (or even non-white who see current leftism as INSANE) men to come back. To link all of this discussion back around to the question of the OP, this is kinda why people are becoming 'racist', as a reaction (in their own perception) to seeing leftism increasingly becoming more extremist and anti-white itself.

AryanSuperSoldier said:
The truth is, whether you choose to believe the opposite or not, the "left" have NOT done a good job of extending olive branches to white straight men, they have not done a good job of presenting proper image of themselves, if you have to constantly say all these "leftists" aren't true or proper leftists even when they account for a pretty decent majority of influence in leftist circles, that is quite frankly damning. The point I'm making and I hope you at least acknowledge or try to understand is that the avg 'right-winger' or even just avg white guy in this case (that isn't already leftist) already has the impression in their heads that leftists and leftism is not a place for them, because all it does is try to pull them down or blame them (or white people, in particular white men) for anything/everything.

No, no, you're absolutely right, the left has done an awful job of letting white men know they are not being blamed, or we're not having this conversation, that is EXACTLY why I think it's important for me to clarify it's not the case, not for me personally, nor for the movement I defend in general (as evidence by the leftist theory that's the basis of that movement, I'm not pulling this out of my ass). If you wanna see change, you gotta be the change, so if the left has done a poor job extending olive branches, let me be the first to do that.

Dumb nigger alert dumb nigger alert

Depends what is considered racist, I don't want my race to disappear (unlike what is happening currently), it's racist in today's standards for a white man to ask that. I'd rather this than my old left-wing POV that brought us to this situation.

Marcal91 said:

No, no, you're absolutely right, the left has done an awful job of letting white men know they are not being blamed, or we're not having this conversation, that is EXACTLY why I think it's important for me to clarify it's not the case, not for me personally, nor for the movement I defend in general (as evidence by the leftist theory that's the basis of that movement, I'm not pulling this out of my ass). If you wanna see change, you gotta be the change, so if the left has done a poor job extending olive branches, let me be the first to do that.

The reason I left the left was the constant anti-men and anti-masculinity rhethoric from(mainstream!) feminists. And I was 100% convinced by left-wing ideals of equality and fighting against presumed oppression.

Combine that with the constant anti-white rhethoric (whites are privileged, white fragility, it's not okay to be white, whites are colonizers, whites should be ashamed of their history (satutes taken down), etc) + the push for DEI (anti-white discrimination in the hiring process and erasure of white people from their own history), white men are definitely seen as the ultimate evil oppressors, even if it's not formulated nor thought explicitely. The entire rhethoric goes into that direction.

I know very well why I am not left-wing anymore and nobody can trick me into thinking I have not lived the things I lived and seen the rhethoric I have seen for entire months, daily.

Marcal91 said:

I don't think it's about moving the overton window, and less about taking megaphones from idiots on the "left" (and giving them to idiots on the right, but that's a topic for another day). It doesn't help that a lot of people not on the left see the left through right-wing accounts showing cherry-picked examples of random people saying idiotic things, rather than the biggest voices on the left. And then they comment on those examples, often misinterpreting them in the worst way possible. Not to say there aren't genuine idiots you don't need to misinterpret, I still remember "political lesbianism". What a fucking joke.

I've never used Twitter much, I'm not a social media guy. Trust me, whatever is said on there doesn't affect my views. I created a Bluesky account and use it just as little.

But in my experience talking to leftists in real life (both from my group and from outside of it), even during the height of Twitter, none of them have ever held anti-white views (specially the white leftists), and they usually have varied opinions on a lot of things, we are not monolithic, we often disagree. I have friends that disagree with my views on Islam that I've posted here before (even though I can't fathom why), others that agree, and I can say that about most topic. But not on this, I don't know anyone who's genuinely anti-white. I know a few people who have what you might consider anti-white beliefs, but they actually believe in equality, they don't think non-white people deserve more than white people, they don't think you should feel guilty for being white, they just believe those policies are necessary to restore equality. Nobody I've ever met, and I do mean NOBODY, is anti-white (EDIT: I meant nobody in the left, a lot of muslims are anti-white, or I guess anti non-muslim, but if they see a white person they will assume they're not muslim anyway), ALL of them believe in racial equality, even if some do feel there's need for policies to "even the playing field" after past discrimination (and current, just not as common and as overt) made that field uneven. Again, you might disagree with that view, but it doesn't change the fact they have no contempt for white people for being white.

You don't have to believe me, you don't have to take me at my word, instead, GO TALK TO YOUR NEIGHBORS, those that had a "vote for Kamala" sign on their yard or window (or whoever it is the left candidate in your country), or find out where the left gathers and talk to them (avoid young people, they don't know shit about the world or leftist theory and they mostly just mimic what they {i}think[/i] leftism looks like, go for like 25+, even better if it's 30+), and ask them about their views on you. Be earnest, and make it clear you're not accusing them of anything, that you're there to try to understand, then tell them you sometimes feel like the left attacks you for the color of your skin, and ask them point-blank if they resent you for being white, and if they don't feel shame or guilt for being white. I truly believe 95-99% of the time, if you don't come off to them as a troll, you'll find they don't resent white people, they don't blame white people in general, and they don't wish them to lose what they have.

Didn't you say you live in spain? I understand spain has a very different leftwing scene because they were run by Franco, for until modern times. But if you were dealing with left wing politics in america in the past, yes it was anti-white, but like the other guy said they lost horribly so they now are focusing on different things, while claiming "they never supported DEI and anti-white stuff and whatnot"

fkiblaze said:

Didn't you say you live in spain? I understand spain has a very different leftwing scene because they were run by Franco, for until modern times. But if you were dealing with left wing politics in america in the past, yes it was anti-white, but like the other guy said they lost horribly so they now are focusing on different things, while claiming "they never supported DEI and anti-white stuff and whatnot"

Okay, I was writing this entire post and realized it would be hard to communicate some stuff because your Overton window is quite different than ours. When I was writing that the Dems should "ditch identity politics and shift left" I realized I needed to explain first, or it would probably short-circuit your brains out of the sheer contradiction, and I don't blame you, for you it IS a contradiction, for you going left means going further into identity politics, not away from it, so we're speaking essentially different languages here, so I figured I should go back and explain beforehand. For me, and for many leftists that are further to the left than Dems, identity politics are more like a far right-wing (who cares more a about race, gender, sexuality, etc. than Nazis?) and center to center-left ideology. If you go further left towards Marxism... well, I've already explained before what Marx wrote about identity politics and why you should AVOID THEM. I don't think I'm as far left as to be considered a Marxist, but even from where I stand politically, identity politics are silly. So yeah, I think they should ditch identity politics and go further left towards my position (but I mean, who doesn't want politicians to think the same they do?). This is not to say Dems (and liberals in general) are not part of the left, sadly, they are, just... Don't assume further left means more identity politics, because it actually means less, I explain more about it later in this post. Oh! And this also doesn't mean Dems are indeed anti-white, again, I explain later in this post. Sorry for the weird structure, but I thought I should go back and explain beforehand, and it's 00:30 here, I'm tired and I don't want to redo the whole post. I'll probably have to clarify a billion things when I wake up, but whatever. Anyway, back to the regularly scheduled post, and keep in mind what's written from this point forward is actually written BEFORE this part:

Spain, and the vast majority of Europe, is way further to the left economically than America is, even our mainstream conservative party is probably just slightly to the right to where Democrats are, they wouldn't give us universal healthcare, but since we have it, they don't dare take it away. Over here, we see your Dems as only very slightly left of center. And I'm personally even further left than our mainstream liberal party. Over here we also have folks that feel attacked for being white, straight, and/or male, I've literally heard conservatives say "they're gonna make it illegal to be straight". Could it be worse over there? Possibly, but I'm not sure how much worse, our liberals are also awful at conveying this message, when someone says they feel attacked for being white, they take it as an attack on their views and immediately assume the other person is racist. I could fill an entire library talk about how much I hate liberals and their willingness to engage in reactionary identity politics, but I'm not gonna.

Even liberals are NOT anti-white, but fuck me if I can blame anyone for thinking so, they have the prosecutorial eye, if you say anything everything even remotely close to what a racist would say, they just assume you're racist from the get go. Look at what I said earlier when I told you I was proud of being white, I didn't just say that, I had to quantify it and compare it with an "acceptable" pride, because just "white pride" on it's own has become a nazi dogwhistle, and if you just use it earnestly, they WILL asume you're a racist using that dogwhistle. But ask any straight white liberal man if they feel unwelcome in the liberal movement, and they will say no, because the hate is not about any of those things.

And no, they are not going "to the right" because they lost, they're just dialing back the identity politics, which, as stated earlier, identity politics are anti-left, so if that's your only barometer, it could also be them going further to the left (horseshoe theory is real for some things, apparently). Think about it, the most beloved Democrat by both conservatives and leftists is Bernie Sanders, which is both the least anti-white dem, and the one furthest to the left, being a SocDem (or was he a DemSoc? My borderline dyslexic ass can never tell which is which, and I hate that those are different positions, but whichever it is, it's quite a bit further to the left than libs).

Also, keep in mind, Trump got about the same number of votes he got in 2020, Harris just got much less than Biden did, those voters didn't change sides, they just didn't show up, and much of that is disillusioned leftists that are fed up with Dem inaction, Bernie or Bust kind of people, so it would make sense for them to ditch identity politics and shift left to try to recapture those people. And if they don't, they'll probably get primaried out so, if you are American and want a silver lining, it's likely that the Democrats, going forward, will focus less on identity politics and more on helping the working people of your country, no matter their race, gender, or sexuality. Or maybe that's just my wishful thinking.

Have I conveyed my point here? Fuck if I know, it's late on a work day and I'm tired, you let me know what you understood from this mess of a post and I'll clarify when I wake up. I'm not fucking deleting all this after writing it all. If nothing else, I hope I've made it clear that I understand why identity politics from liberals feel like an attack on straight white males, and thar people who are further on the left than liberals don't want identity politics.

EVerde said:

The reason I left the left was the constant anti-men and anti-masculinity rhethoric from(mainstream!) feminists. And I was 100% convinced by left-wing ideals of equality and fighting against presumed oppression.

Combine that with the constant anti-white rhethoric (whites are privileged, white fragility, it's not okay to be white, whites are colonizers, whites should be ashamed of their history (satutes taken down), etc) + the push for DEI (anti-white discrimination in the hiring process and erasure of white people from their own history), white men are definitely seen as the ultimate evil oppressors, even if it's not formulated nor thought explicitely. The entire rhethoric goes into that direction.

I know very well why I am not left-wing anymore and nobody can trick me into thinking I have not lived the things I lived and seen the rhethoric I have seen for entire months, daily.

I will not invalidate your experience, nor am trying to make you believe you didn't live those things, but as a white man that for most of his life thought he was straight (my bisexual awakening was very recent, for most of my life I've lived and identified as straight), my experience has been vastly different. I do feel welcome in the leftist movement, both offline in Spain, and online in American circles. I personally have never felt that anybody was blaming me or my ethnicity for anything. Again, not invalidating your experiences, we've lived very different lives and met very different people.

Let me ask you one question: are you still convinced by ideals of equality and fighting oppression, but you also think the liberals are actually pushing for inequality and oppression (against white males) so you should fight them? Genuine question, if that's the case, I understand.

Marcal91 said:

A lot of stuff that is even longer than my comments

I dont claim identity politcs means left wing, it's about equity that is left wing, let me explain with your second comment here...

Marcal91 said:

Let me ask you one question: are you still convinced by ideals of equality and fighting oppression, but you also think the liberals are actually pushing for inequality and oppression (against white males) so you should fight them? Genuine question, if that's the case, I understand.

Leftist assume humans are equal in a state of nature, and therefore all differences and hierarchies are due to oppression, whether it be class oppression under typical marxism, or racial oppression under DEI woke marxism. Because of this, leftist just assumed black people do worse because evil whites are/were oppressing them, and therefore whites must repent from their evil ways, and then be punished and have their stuff used to help nonwhites. That is where the typical antiwhite stuff came from, it came from seeing whites just like how old marxists see bourgeois/capitalist. They didnt just become anti white because they dont like white skin. The change is they are just going back to classical marxism as an explanation rather than racial marxism since that failed horribly. Im not saying every leftist was a racial marxist but it was a modern trend that is now dying off. People on the right dont believe in physical equality and think it's just an excuse for envy and taking from those that have more than you.

Marcal91 said:

I will not invalidate your experience, nor am trying to make you believe you didn't live those things, but as a white man that for most of his life thought he was straight (my bisexual awakening was very recent, for most of my life I've lived and identified as straight), my experience has been vastly different. I do feel welcome in the leftist movement, both offline in Spain, and online in American circles. I personally have never felt that anybody was blaming me or my ethnicity for anything. Again, not invalidating your experiences, we've lived very different lives and met very different people.

Let me ask you one question: are you still convinced by ideals of equality and fighting oppression, but you also think the liberals are actually pushing for inequality and oppression (against white males) so you should fight them? Genuine question, if that's the case, I understand.

I don't believe in ideals of equality anymore and don't think there is oppression, because I came to understand that genetics and biology play a very big role in determining our intelligence, behaviour, personality and interests. And this is a scientific consensus, there are countless studies and they all go in the same direction. If men and women have different interests and don't go in the same domains (on average), it's because there are average differences in the male and female brain, starting in the mother's womb (more testosterone is produced at key times for the male foetus, "masculinizing" the brain), so it's mostly due to biological differences. And this is just one example. But the same goes for different people, it's a scientific consensus that differences between populations do not limit themselves to skin colour. Natural selection doesn't stop below the head and cultures and history play a major role as well.

Tldr; Differences are not mostly due to oppression, but to genetics and culture.

instincts. you, being white, get a negative experience from a representative of another race or nation, after which, due to the instinct of self-preservation, you begin to treat them aggressively, especially men, because we have always fought with each other for resources and land. Racism is inevitable for countries with many strangers, like Russia, America or European countries. in them, people often face crimes from foreigners.

fkiblaze said:
A lot of stuff that is even longer than my comments

Yeah, sorry about that, it was late and my ADHD brain didn't see the option to wait to share the ideas floating in it.

fkiblaze said:
I dont claim identity politcs means left wing, it's about equity that is left wing, let me explain with your second comment here...

Leftist assume humans are equal in a state of nature, and therefore all differences and hierarchies are due to oppression, whether it be class oppression under typical marxism, or racial oppression under DEI woke marxism. Because of this, leftist just assumed black people do worse because evil whites are/were oppressing them, and therefore whites must repent from their evil ways, and then be punished and have their stuff used to help nonwhites. That is where the typical antiwhite stuff came from, it came from seeing whites just like how old marxists see bourgeois/capitalist. They didnt just become anti white because they dont like white skin. The change is they are just going back to classical marxism as an explanation rather than racial marxism since that failed horribly. Im not saying every leftist was a racial marxist but it was a modern trend that is now dying off. People on the right dont believe in physical equality and think it's just an excuse for envy and taking from those that have more than you.

It's not about everyone having the same things and having physical equality, it's about equal oportunity and equal treatment (acounting for the person's history): I want a, let's say, black ex-convict to have the same opportunities and be treated the same as a whie ex-convict, for example, and that is just not the case. There are multiple studies proving colored people get treated worse on average, and they don't get the same opportunities (although it has been improving over the years). For example, there's been studies sendig sets of identical CVs just changing the names, and people with white-sounding names got more calls with people with identical qualifications but having black-sounding names, it used to be as high as 50% more calls on average in 2004, but in 2024 it was down to 9%. I can only imagine it's starting to rise again with the removal of DEI measures (not gonna argue if DEI was the correct way to lower that percentage or if the cure was worse than the desease, nor going to defend DEI here, that's besides the point, the point is that it did lower that number, even if you think the consequences were worse than letting that number stay up). I just want everyone to have a fair shot at life, that's it.

EVerde said:
I don't believe in ideals of equality anymore and don't think there is oppression, because I came to understand that genetics and biology play a very big role in determining our intelligence, behaviour, personality and interests. And this is a scientific consensus, there are countless studies and they all go in the same direction. If men and women have different interests and don't go in the same domains (on average), it's because there are average differences in the male and female brain, starting in the mother's womb (more testosterone is produced at key times for the male foetus, "masculinizing" the brain), so it's mostly due to biological differences. And this is just one example. But the same goes for different people, it's a scientific consensus that differences between populations do not limit themselves to skin colour. Natural selection doesn't stop below the head and cultures and history play a major role as well.

Tldr; Differences are not mostly due to oppression, but to genetics and culture.

I'm going to be brutally honest, those beliefs must not have been that deeply held if a bunch of attacks from the liberals made you do a 180 and abandon those beliefs for the complete opposite. Antifa could rape me and kill my family for being white, and if that happened I would do anything I can to hurt and, if possible, destroy Antifa (or that Antifa cell or whatever), but I would keep my convictions intact and still think fascism is bad.

And yes, there are, on average, biological differences (on average doing the heavy lifting here), nobody is asking you to ignore those. Well, scratch that, there are morons everywhere, you can probably find someone saying we should ignore those. But most leftist do acknowledge the biological differences, specially when it comes to feminism and man/woman stuff. For example, I don't think there's anyone thinking women are as strong as men on average, but they do know some women are stronger than most men, and that's what they mean when they say women can be as strong as men. I don't want to pretend women on average will deadlift the same as men, I just want each individual woman to be given a fair shot with the weights and if they can't lift them, they can't lift them. But some of them will be able to.

Gilgogla said:
instincts. you, being white, get a negative experience from a representative of another race or nation, after which, due to the instinct of self-preservation, you begin to treat them aggressively, especially men, because we have always fought with each other for resources and land. Racism is inevitable for countries with many strangers, like Russia, America or European countries. in them, people often face crimes from foreigners.

"A representative from another race or nation"? Did you get mugged by an ambassador? Or you think everyone represents every single group they belong to individually? Also, "A negative experience"? A single one? By that logic, everyone that has had trouble with anyone should have hatred towards that person's entire group: "A white man punched me in the face because I wouldn't let him cut in line, so now I'm a misandrist and anti-white". Don't get me wrong, I don't think it'd be really excusable if it was multiple bad experiences, because there are other reasons besides race, but I find the fact that you said one single negative experienc mind-boggling.

I got bullied in scchool by a black guy two years older than me, and now I have a chip on my shoulder against bullies, not against black people, I actually have black and latin-american friends. Don't use your shitty experiences as an excuse to be shitty to other people. You say racism is inevitable and, in the country as a whole, you might be right, racists will almost certainly always pop up, but on the individual level is far from inevitable.

Marcal91 said:

I'm going to be brutally honest, those beliefs must not have been that deeply held if a bunch of attacks from the liberals made you do a 180 and abandon those beliefs for the complete opposite. Antifa could rape me and kill my family for being white, and if that happened I would do anything I can to hurt and, if possible, destroy Antifa (or that Antifa cell or whatever), but I would keep my convictions intact and still think fascism is bad.

And yes, there are, on average, biological differences (on average doing the heavy lifting here), nobody is asking you to ignore those. Well, scratch that, there are morons everywhere, you can probably find someone saying we should ignore those. But most leftist do acknowledge the biological differences, specially when it comes to feminism and man/woman stuff. For example, I don't think there's anyone thinking women are as strong as men on average, but they do know some women are stronger than most men, and that's what they mean when they say women can be as strong as men. I don't want to pretend women on average will deadlift the same as men, I just want each individual woman to be given a fair shot with the weights and if they can't lift them, they can't lift them. But some of them will be able to.

These beliefs were very deeply held, I was 10000% convinced of what I was saying. You're here minimizing the amount of hate and hypocrisy from feminists which lead me to look at right-wingers. I remember before clicking on my very first right-wing YouTube video, I kept repeating and I did it for a few minutes "I know she's racist, sexist, homophobic, I know she's hateful, racist, sexist..." etc. That's how deeply convinced I was. I even thought saying all lives mater was racist. This is how much of a leftist I was.

Fascism, the non-existent threat used by leftists to scare people into their ideology. See, that's exactly the kind of dishonesty (combined with the amount of hate and hypocrisy) that made me leave the left.

Literally feminists are asking for 50% men and 50% women in certain positions, all over the West, because they ignore biological differences and pretend it's only oppression. I know it very well with how deep I was into the feminist movement. It's not just about physics, it's about the variance in IQ, certain personality traits and given behaviours. On average of course, but still it has an impact and you have to explain me how you can both acknowledge those biological differences and still ask for 50/50.

EVerde said:
Literally feminists are asking for 50% men and 50% women in certain positions, all over the West, because they ignore biological differences and pretend it's only oppression. I know it very well with how deep I was into the feminist movement. It's not just about physics, it's about the variance in IQ, certain personality traits and given behaviours. On average of course, but still it has an impact and you have to explain me how you can both acknowledge those biological differences and still ask for 50/50.

I don't know, you'd have to ask them, I only ask for a fair shot. I would imagine they think that, when it comes to the requirements those positions, the differences are small enough that it should be close to 50/50 if everyone was given a fair shot. Or maybe they do ignore the differences, it's possible, I don't know, I'm not them, go ask them.

EVerde said:
I even thought saying all lives mater was racist. This is how much of a leftist I was.

I was the opposite, back then when BLM and ALM begun I didn't understand why it was racist (it's not, all lives DO matter), and why there was a divide between BLM and ALM, I mean, if all lives matter, that must necessarily mean black lives matter as well. It was later that I uderstood all lives matter was being used by a dogwhistle (not everyone who said it was racist, but some where, and by opposing BLM they tried to make it as if BLM didn't think all lives mattered).

EVerde said:
Fascism, the non-existent threat used by leftists to scare people into their ideology. See, that's exactly the kind of dishonesty (combined with the amount of hate and hypocrisy) that made me leave the left.

This is so self-evidently wrong I don't even know where to begin. Do you really think fascism doesn't exist? Or do you think it's not a threat, but a desirable outcome?

EVerde said:

These beliefs were very deeply held, I was 10000% convinced of what I was saying. You're here minimizing the amount of hate and hypocrisy from feminists which lead me to look at right-wingers. I remember before clicking on my very first right-wing YouTube video, I kept repeating and I did it for a few minutes "I know she's racist, sexist, homophobic, I know she's hateful, racist, sexist..." etc. That's how deeply convinced I was.

You know what? Fuck it, convert me, give me the link to that video (or any other video you think would be equally convincing), I promise to watch it from start to finish (although if it's more than an hour long it might take me a few days), and comment it with you. I won't even repeat my mantra like you did (I don't have one). I promise I will give it an earnest watch an consider the points offered.

Marcal let me just ask you point blank what your core values are. I believe leftism and rightism are weird and vague ways to categorise political and ideological beliefs, and luckily there’s IMO a better way to know someone’s true views. Which of these core 6 values do you most agree with, and their subsequent ways of structuring society:

• Republicanism (the state shall recognise no inherit hierarchy or caste) - Democracies, Federations and Confederations
• Libertarianism (Human freedom from the collective is the ultimate goal) - City States
• Darwinism (Competition leads to progress, winners are rewarded and go on to create more success, losers must reinvent themselves or vanish) - Tribes, Clans
• Absolutism (Humans can be property, The Emperor owns the Kings, Kings own the Lords, Lords own the subjects; thus the Emperor has a personal direct interest in the prosperity and security of the Empire) - Empires/Kingdoms etc
• Totalitarianism (The achievement of the goals of the state take precedence over any human freedom) - Dictatorships
• Marxism (Competition is cruel, it divides people into winners and losers. By creating a classless society through revolution, we can end cruelty.) Communes on one hand and Socialist Dictatorships on the other

Now you’ll probably notice that certain values have their direct opposites, such as Libertarianism vs Totalitarianism, Absolutism vs Republicanism, and lastly Marxism vs Darwinism. I’m not going to judge you for saying you agree more with Marxism, but to me it feels more like you align more with the true definition or intention of Republicanism (Democracies). It’s about being fair to it’s people and gives everyone who ought to have a stake in things a voice whilst rejecting the notion that certain castes or classes of people (namely royalty, nobility or rich oligarchical families) ought to have a right to rule over others. But Republicanism unlike Marxism isn’t trying to outright overthrow all forms of hierarchies for some kind of utopia.

Marcal91 said:

I got bullied in scchool by a black guy two years older than me, and now I have a chip on my shoulder against bullies, not against black people, I actually have black and latin-american friends. Don't use your shitty experiences as an excuse to be shitty to other people. You say racism is inevitable and, in the country as a whole, you might be right, racists will almost certainly always pop up, but on the individual level is far from inevitable.

The thing is, I don’t think people become racist because of just one bad incident with another race, it’s usually from the noticing or experiencing some kind of pattern of behaviour or reoccurring negative experiences with other races. I’m not racist, certainly not as racist as my dad, but he wasn’t racist either until throughout his life he had many bad experiences with Africans (I don’t mean African Americans, I mean Africans). Because he was a soldier and was sent to Rwanda during their civil war genocide as a peacekeeper and what he saw and experienced there must’ve made some kind of lasting impact on him (it left him with Bipolar and PTSD). Also when he came back from Rwanda, it didn’t help that newly arrived African immigrants killed his dogs. He felt he didn’t get justice from law enforcement about what happened to his dogs. So you see it’s him seeing a negative pattern of behaviour that lead to him holding racist beliefs about Africans (maybe not African Americans, maybe not even all Africans or black people either). I only know this about my dad because I asked him why he had racist beliefs and that’s what he told me.

I assume this kind of psychological defence mechanism is true for many kinds of people and issues, like women who are molested or sexually abused by men begin to hate and distrust most men, and some become the most insufferable kinds of feminists as a way of dealing with trauma. I can also imagine how this kind of pattern recognition rationalisation can even make people hate Jews sometimes irrationally, or how in some places in America or whatever people hating on other groups of people for simply being more successful somehow in certain areas (like Black on Asian violence).

AryanSuperSoldier said:

Marcal let me just ask you point blank what your core values are. I believe leftism and rightism are weird and vague ways to categorise political and ideological beliefs, and luckily there’s IMO a better way to know someone’s true views. Which of these core 6 values do you most agree with, and their subsequent ways of structuring society:

• Republicanism (the state shall recognise no inherit hierarchy or caste) - Democracies, Federations and Confederations
• Libertarianism (Human freedom from the collective is the ultimate goal) - City States
• Darwinism (Competition leads to progress, winners are rewarded and go on to create more success, losers must reinvent themselves or vanish) - Tribes, Clans
• Absolutism (Humans can be property, The Emperor owns the Kings, Kings own the Lords, Lords own the subjects; thus the Emperor has a personal direct interest in the prosperity and security of the Empire) - Empires/Kingdoms etc
• Totalitarianism (The achievement of the goals of the state take precedence over any human freedom) - Dictatorships
• Marxism (Competition is cruel, it divides people into winners and losers. By creating a classless society through revolution, we can end cruelty.) Communes on one hand and Socialist Dictatorships on the other

Now you’ll probably notice that certain values have their direct opposites, such as Libertarianism vs Totalitarianism, Absolutism vs Republicanism, and lastly Marxism vs Darwinism. I’m not going to judge you for saying you agree more with Marxism, but to me it feels more like you align more with the true definition or intention of Republicanism (Democracies). It’s about being fair to it’s people and gives everyone who ought to have a stake in things a voice whilst rejecting the notion that certain castes or classes of people (namely royalty, nobility or rich oligarchical families) ought to have a right to rule over others. But Republicanism unlike Marxism isn’t trying to outright overthrow all forms of hierarchies for some kind of utopia.

I agree in some level with both Republicanism and Marxism. Now, let me clarify, competition is inevitable, but collaboration should be preferred. Marxism's main point is to eliminate the class divide to give everyone the same opportunities, what they do with those opportunities is up to the individual. I think it's abundantly clear I've not had the same opportunities as Elon Musk, and since I was born into a decently wealthy (above average median) family, I know other people have even less opportunities than I have. About hierarchies, I don't think I'm personally against them as a whole, but their scope and impact should be limited, and they should certainly not be based on race, gender, sexuality, etc.

EDIT: I've never stopped to assign hard definitions to my views, I've always gone by feel, by what seems right to me. I think if I said "I'm this specific ideology" would make me less open minded and less prone to change those views. The only reason I'm comfortable sayinf I'm a leftist is because comparing my views to the ones on the left, most of them align with people pretty far left of center, so I'm just describing what it is right now, not adopting it as an identity.

AryanSuperSoldier said:

The thing is, I don’t think people become racist because of just one bad incident with another race, it’s usually from the noticing or experiencing some kind of pattern of behaviour or reoccurring negative experiences with other races.

No, I agree, it's usually multiple incidents (I don't agree that it's justified even with multiple incidents, just that it's what usually happens), but the person I was responding to did say one incident, which found dumbfounding.

Marcal91 said:

You know what? Fuck it, convert me, give me the link to that video (or any other video you think would be equally convincing), I promise to watch it from start to finish (although if it's more than an hour long it might take me a few days), and comment it with you. I won't even repeat my mantra like you did (I don't have one). I promise I will give it an earnest watch an consider the points offered.

I don't know what would or wouldn't convince you, but that was the very first video I watched when I was deep into feminism and opened the door to the right. https://youtu.be/Wdc87q8JOqw

Marcal91 said:

I don't know, you'd have to ask them, I only ask for a fair shot. I would imagine they think that, when it comes to the requirements those positions, the differences are small enough that it should be close to 50/50 if everyone was given a fair shot. Or maybe they do ignore the differences, it's possible, I don't know, I'm not them, go ask them.

It would absolutely not be 50/50 if everyone was given a fair chance, once again stop ignoring biological differences that impact averages in intelligence, personality, behaviours and aspirations. There are more men interested in politics and investing themselves in it, more men putting their careers first, men and women choose on average different areas of studies, etc. And all of those, although not exclusively determined by biology, are greatly determined by biology. In no fair world would there be 50/50 in domains where feminists advocate for that.

I was the opposite, back then when BLM and ALM begun I didn't understand why it was racist (it's not, all lives DO matter), and why there was a divide between BLM and ALM, I mean, if all lives matter, that must necessarily mean black lives matter as well. It was later that I uderstood all lives matter was being used by a dogwhistle (not everyone who said it was racist, but some where, and by opposing BLM they tried to make it as if BLM didn't think all lives mattered).

When you had people in manifestations with signs saying it's not okay to be white, asking white people to kneel in front of black people, saying racist things against white people and demonizing white people for their past, then you have here a group of people that are racist against white people. And it was precisely what we saw in those BLM protests. The vast majority of people that used ALM were not racist, simply they opposed the anti-white message of BLM, shaming whites for their own race and pointing at them constantly as a problem.

This is so self-evidently wrong I don't even know where to begin. Do you really think fascism doesn't exist? Or do you think it's not a threat, but a desirable outcome?

Fallacious argument, as if what I said was only either of the two.
Fascism exists, and it's not a threat nor a desirable outcome. Fascist groups are extremely marginal, and in comparison to socialists, marxists and communists, it's really not a threat. Whereas socialism is already implemented in countries like France and leading to their economic ruin. As well as more authoritarian left-wing policies in countries like France, the UK or Germany, putting in prison dissidents for criticizing immigration.